To anyone considering the IQ and IQ2..

Hi all,

I have had security systems now for 10+ years and I’ve done DIY + central monitoring for my personal use since 2011, so I’ve seen a few systems.

Recently (a month ago) I bit the bullet and purchased a Qolsys system. It was from a different service, so this in no way reflects my view of SuretyDIY or their support. This is merely commentary on the product.

Long story short, I’m going to try and save someone the pain I went through. I would advise anyone thinking of IQ panel to look to another product, and ESPECIALLY if what you are after is using IQ2 as a secondary panel.

These are buggy products that are not ready for prime time, and in my view you should not rely on them to protect your home. Bad things happened in my case, things like I would open a door or trip a sensor and the IQ panel wouldn’t respond - it just didn’t see the sensor being tripped, at random. Other times it would see the sensor but there was a delay of 5-10 second. I could open a door, walk through it, close it and then count a few seconds and then the panel would respond. This kind of behavior would continue until I powered down the panel and pulled the battery.

Now, that’s a problem. If I cannot rely on the panel to respond when a sensor is tripped, then what good is it? And before anyone thinks I gave it one go and said the hell with it, I spent days troubleshooting this problem. I started off with new sensors, swapped several of them for new sensors again to make sure, all sensors had “excellent” signal strength when I tested it, I followed through all the troubleshooting steps of the security service I went through, they contacted Qolsys, and what quickly became apparent is that Qolsys is not interested in my issue or in solving it. Their responses - despite repeated requests from the security tech I was working with - amounted to turn it off and back on again.

Also I want to impart that anyone wanting “secondary touchscreen” functionality out of the IQ2 is likely to be underwhelmed. The included mounting option is a 2" circle of velcro, no joke. There is no provision made for running power remotely to it, by the skin of my teeth I managed to use CAT6 stranded together to get it powered in place, and rigged a solution to hold it a bit better on the wall, but at the end of the day it looks like a generic android tablet that has been dumbed down. It is missing many of the apps that are on the IQ panel itself. It connects only over wifi but I tried several different access points and it does a terrible job of STAYING connected. Half the time you go to use the panel and get the message that it’s unable to connect to primary. Then you have to mess with wifi settings or reboot the IQ2 before it will connect to the main IQ panel again. There is no notification that the IQ2 stops working either. That means if you rely on the IQ2 to chime when someone opens the door - say if the IQ2 is in master bedroom and you can’t hear the main IQ panel from there, then you can’t really rely on it, sometimes it works, sometimes not. Same with the siren if god forbid someone broke in during the night. It also has a problem with keeping time, frequently reverting to GMT for no reason. Also there is no automatic update for the IQ2, and there is a needlessly complicated procedure for downloading patches manually by typing in cryptic patch codes into the IQ panel.

While we are on the subject of patches, Qolsys tends to tinker around with their patches and the same patch code may equate to a different actual file… so for example if you downloaded “iq215” patch for IQ2 in mid to late december, you may have an older version… if you type “iq215” again it downloads a later version. This to me is bad - it should have been named differently and released as iq2151 or iq216 or something that is different. They slid this one under the rug and do not explain this concept well.

Also, these panels run Android. Specifically they run on 2.2 which was released almost six years ago. That’s ancient for mobile OS’s and there isn’t really any excuse why these panels shouldn’t be on at LEAST android 4.x But let’s put that point aside. What I’m driving at is that unlike other alarm systems in the past like Simon XTi and such, this one runs a full OS. There are more moving pieces and Android is notorious for being temperamental if it isn’t implemented just right and I can tell you these people have not done it just right. With the XTi there was a lot less to go wrong, and you could still control home automation stuff like door locks, lights, thermostats, plus zwave and image sensors and the like. I only mention it because I had an XTi for years and it was reliable… never had any problems like this. This is not an endorsement that XTi is the direction you should go by any means, it’s an older system. But it did work reliably and had real actual secondary touchscreens that were meant to be mounted.

Because both I and the security tech were at wits end, I tried calling Qolsys myself and they refuse to talk to anyone who isn’t a security dealer, even if you stress that you are not asking them to troubleshoot your system in any way and just want to make suggestions or get a feel for the state of the product from their viewpoint. They simply don’t want to hear from you.

I’ve never used 2Gig’s stuff before but I may be looking that direction now. In any case, that is my experience with Qolsys. I’m sure some of you use it and are happy with it, but I really really tried to make it work and in the end I couldn’t get comfortable that I could rely on this system to work. If I save even one person from having to go through what I went through, writing this will have been worth it.

FWIW, My Qolsys setup has been running good and has been very responsive, but I’m using all hardwired sensors. I agree that the secondary keypad thing is a problem. I’m not interested in the IQ2 at all - the pinpad is kinda a joke, and I’m somewhat frustrated that there isn’t a decent, basic, secondary keypad as there is for other (GE?) systems.

I am sorry to hear you were having so much trouble with the IQ Panel. The good news is that even though it wasn’t purchased here, we’re still happy to help if you are willing to take one last swing. The issues you report are not all common (there have been a lot of reports regarding the IQ2 connectivity however, those are being addressed by subsequent firmware patches). Do you happen to still have this unit?

I would be interested to know the Revision and RFPIC version on the panel. Revision would be the fourth letter of the serial number on the sticker on the IQ panel. Starts “QSN_.”

The RFPIC number can be found by pressing “Settings - About - Scroll down to RF PIC Version”

Some of the sensor signal delay/communication failure problems you’ve mentioned are indicative of the oldest versions of the IQ panel, which is why I ask.

Another thought, what model of wireless sensors were giving you trouble? Not all models are fully supported by all of the RFPIC versions. We can verify the sensor model is on the compatibility list.

SN: QSNG153601477
Software version: Q1.5.2-ADCS 4.3-ADCL 4.3
Linux Version: 2.6.34.141124.18
Android Version: 2.2.2
Android System Version: 2.2.2.131125
Hardware Version: Rev G
System PIC Version: V80_05
RF PIC Version: 8.3.3 - G
EEPROM Format Version: 2012/12/19

I appreciate the offer to troubleshoot this system but I’m done with it. I got to the point of utter frustration and had to walk away from it. I don’t think it will ever be what I wanted it to be which is a shame because it seems so promising. But the truth is that this thing is not stable and I don’t feel comfortable with the safety of my family riding on the steaming pile of code that resides within this panel.

I might have forgiven all of that if not for Qolsys’s attitude. If they had been willing to work with me, even if through the security tech who really tried to assist, and if they had any clear answers as to why I was having such trouble, I would have worked with them. Having to tear this thing out is a horrible inconvenience and I had to drop back to using a Simon XTi to be able to use the same GE sensors. So now in a brand new house I have old technology for the security system. I’m not happy about it.

But Qolsys’s attitude was terrible to me and terrible to the security tech. I’ve spoken to half a dozen tech’s there and they all say Qolsys tech support is terrible and that they have had way more problems with these panels than they had with older ones like the Simon.

The IQ2 itself just defies belief… no way to properly mount to a wall, no LED to quickly tell if system is armed or disarmed, poor viewing angle, I could go on and on.

Slantedview, to your point I suspect all wired sensors would help, but all the same… the panel is just too unstable for me to feel comfortable to rely on it.

If you wouldn’t mind, would you be able to provide the model of sensors on the system that were having trouble? It’s possible either an incompatible or malfunctioning sensor may be overwhelming the RF radio.

Do you happen to have a wireless signal repeater for the system? And just to be sure, if so, do you have two? (Two cannot be used with one system and can cause a feedback loop and sensor signal failures)

Ender519,

I am also very disappointed in the quality and reliability of the IQ and the IQ2.I agree with everything you said. I’m done with mine as well once I find a suitable and reliable replacement. The family likes the tablet touchpad interface, so I have to find something comparable.

Do you have any specific systems in mind? I’m looking but haven’t found much yet.

Thanks very much,
T

Update: Has anyone seen the 2gig GC3 Security & Control Panel?

2GIG has released info regarding first production versions.

Update: Has anyone seen the 2gig GC3 Security & Control Panel

Here is some more on the GC3

Nortek Press release:

VIDEO:
https://vimeo.com/150846439

Due to reliability and support issues with the Qolsys IQ and IQ2, I am going to replace my system. I have tested and can validate similar problems like those described in this thread by Ender519. I purchased my IQ and IQ2 a month ago. Like Ender519, I can trip sensors and get no response from the panel. I tested 4 sensors: 2 door and 2 motion. The sensors are new and are located 8ft, 15ft, 25ft, and 40ft from the panel. At times the panel does not respond, and the logs show no activity. The IQ2 is a joke and not worthy of further discussion. Android 2.2 is fraught with security issues. Image sensor uploads have major delays. I could go on.

Important Note: My issues are with Qolsys, not SuretyDIY or their wonderful people.

I am interested in learning more about the 2gig QC3. Surety folks: do we have ballpark pricing yet? I don’t need an exact number; I want to know if the 2gig QC3 is in my price range. I know it’s very new. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Thanks for the info.

Pricing for the GC3 is not yet available. The good news, however, is that I’m finally comfortable not using " " around soon to describe when we should have the GC3. We should have it available, and obviously pricing will be posted once it is, in the next couple of weeks.

From what I gather online, looks like the GC3 (without cellular module) retails approx. $100 more than the GC2 (so around $300 or so).

There are reports of some Dealers doing pre orders for $244

SuretyDIY folks: Are you planning preorders for the GC3?
Thanks.

We are not planning pre-orders.

Expected availability on the panel however is within the next few weeks.

I have tested and can validate similar problems like those described in this thread by Ender519. I purchased my IQ and IQ2 a month ago. Like Ender519, I can trip sensors and get no response from the panel. I tested 4 sensors: 2 door and 2 motion. The sensors are new and are located 8ft, 15ft, 25ft, and 40ft from the panel. At times the panel does not respond, and the logs show no activity.

For those having issues, a couple questions for testing purposes:

  1. How long were the power cable runs for your IQ control panel? What gauge of cable are you using?

  2. Are your IQ Panels connected to wifi?

  3. Do you have any sensor signal repeaters (RE120)?

Ok all, I am back with some update here.

First, I finally got Qolsys to work with me, I reached out via social media and got connected with their tier 3 tech support via techsupport@qolsys.com which as it turns out is willing to work with you if you are having problems that cannot be solved by going through your security dealer.

So, I laid out my utter frustration with the problems I’m having with the Qolsys, which I had written off and had packed up ready to go back to my security dealer. By updating to the latest version on IQ Panel via patch tag “systest152” and updating to the latest version of “iq215” patch tag (dated mid January) some of the issues have subsided.

It’s not perfect by any means. Still having problems with IQ2’s dropping offline and their engineering is working to help fix that issue. Also with IQ panel it seems that it is registering RF jamming. This detection is turned off by default. You have to go to Settings and put in the DEALER (not installer!) code, and this gives you additional options. Under Installation -> Security Settings, scroll to the bottom and under the option to enable IQ2 panels, you will see detection for RF jamming and you can set it to low/med/high sensitivity (low is recommended).

The indication is that there is something affecting my RF signal but I have no idea what. I get sporadic alerts throughout the day, but I don’t have any access point / router / modem etc near this panel. I have one wireless printer in the same room and then the kitchen on the other side of the wall - there is some talk that apparently kitchen appliances may be to blame?

Anyway, the software issues won’t fix the design issues but it would at least make it better. I made the following suggestions straight to Qolsys but no commitment to do any of them, I was just thanked for my input.

  1. Better official mounting option than velcro for those that wish to use it as a secondary panel in a permanent location

  2. Allow display timeout changes on IQ2 so that you can control how long before the screen goes blank - including never timing out (screen stays on all the time)

  3. Offer screensaver for IQ2 - specifically I think that black screen + grey so that it isn’t too bright but can still provide information… time + date + weather, and then current status of arm/disarm across the top… attached pic is what I had in mind (crude drawing). Here’s the thing… what I would really like (and I bet others would too) is the ability to quickly see if the system is armed or disarmed. There is no LED on the IQ2 that I know of, so in lieu of that, why not provide a low key screen that is dark so it won’t generate much light in the nighttime… and then in combination with the setting from #2 above, this allows someone to make use of the IQ2 visually without having to tap the screen. Your default screen is also quite bright and for locations like master bedroom where people use IQ2 that may be too much. If you really want to go for broke, also allow for picture frame like the main IQ panel.

  4. Automatic updates for IQ2, the current system of downloading via patch tag and then pushing update via IQ panel is pretty cumbersome for average Joe to figure out

  5. 5 day weather forecast for IQ2, currently the weather icon does nothing

  6. Whatever the next hardware version of IQ2, it needs a better viewing angle. When it’s mounted on a wall, the current screen washes out easily if you aren’t looking straight on.

Now, while I have a better viewpoint of the gear since last I wrote because I finally have some attention and it feels like there is light at the end of the tunnel, I have a weary eye towards the future. For this to work the connectivity from IQ2 -> IQ needs to be rock solid and it is definitely not there. The issue with the panel not responding to sensors - I had this happen once more while working with Qolsys but as soon as I tried again it worked. That is not ideal but until I chase down the RF interference I cannot put this 100% on Qolsys just yet.

For Jason’s questions:

  1. How long were the power cable runs for your IQ control panel? What gauge of cable are you using?
    My run is about 40-50ft, using 4 strands of CAT6 solid cable. In other words, all 4 green/brown is pos(+) while all 4 orange/blue is neg(-). I used multimeter and the drop in voltage is very minor, amounts to a few % loss. I understand this should be within tolerance.

  2. Are your IQ Panels connected to wifi?
    Yes, as it happens I have two wifi networks… primary one is using enterprise grade equipment and the backup one is the wireless cable modem. Similar results / stability using both networks - that is to say, I have had issues with both networks, so I don’t think this is a case of incompatibility or config or signal issue with one network vs another.

  3. Do you have any sensor signal repeaters (RE120)?
    No I do not, didn’t know those even existed. When I asked my security dealer about RF signal repeater they said one doesn’t exist. Clearly they were mistaken…

If Qolsys is about to turn this around, I may end up keeping their panel. To be honest, swapping the 25+ sensors I have would be a giant pain in the ass, and to switch to 2Gig requires all new sensors and a new security dealer (pretty sure I would use these suretydiy folks, they seem pretty good).

I am cautious about 2Gig GC3 for a couple of reasons… first among them is that it’s a brand new product and who knows what issues it might have. On paper it looks fantastic but then so did the Qolsys. I want to see what software it’s built on and how stable/reliable it is, that’s something we may not know for months. Also, I understand there is no secondary panel yet (just a pin pad really). So that doesn’t help me. IQ2’s may be a sucky secondary panel but at least there is one.

If Qolsys situation goes south I will probably go back to Simon XTi - it’s older but it’s reliable at least… I don’t think GC2 will make me happy, and I’m not sure GC3 will be available in enough time with a secondary panel to make it worth considering.

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1. Better official mounting option than velcro for those that wish to use it as a secondary panel in a permanent location

Agreed, though this goes hand in hand with a different power option. A new version of the IQ2 is actually being developed due to this concern (and others) as I understand it.

2. Allow display timeout changes on IQ2 so that you can control how long before the screen goes blank – including never timing out (screen stays on all the time)

Display options will be restored in an upcoming official update I am told. Although “always on” was not a prior option.

why not provide a low key screen that is dark so it won’t generate much light in the nighttime.. and then in combination with the setting from #2 above, this allows someone to make use of the IQ2 visually without having to tap the screen

I think we are starting to move toward a completely new product. The IQ2 does not seem to be intended to replace wall-mounted keypads, (the velcro admittedly feels like an afterthought) so functions more suited to a permanent mounted device are less likely to be quickly implemented. I’m not saying it shouldn’t have been designed with more permanent wall mounting in mind, I think it should have.

It was almost certainly expected to be used in new installs as a night-stand type device that is going to be interacted with if needed. The newer secondary in the works may be more likely to offer what you need, and I would be willing to bet Qolsys would take these suggestions into consideration. It is, from what I understand, meant as a permanent mounted device.

4. Automatic updates for IQ2, the current system of downloading via patch tag and then pushing update via IQ panel is pretty cumbersome for average Joe to figure out

Automatic updates happen. They are not turned on for 1.5.1 (certainly not 1.5.2, which is not widely available that I know of). There is a delay between development of the update, making it available for download, and letting panels automatically download it. There’s been a delay with every version that I am aware. 1.5.1/2 probably won’t auto-update for a little while yet.

Additional quick fix patches would not need to be downloaded in an auto-update scenario (would already be the latest version, stable, when downloaded).

5. 5 day weather forecast for IQ2, currently the weather icon does nothing

Yeah, extended forecast info is only on IQ panel currently. I believe this is an expected addition. It is something that in systems that utilize an IQ2, is probably more useful to have access to on the IQ2 than the main panel.

6. Whatever the next hardware version of IQ2, it needs a better viewing angle. When it’s mounted on a wall, the current screen washes out easily if you aren’t looking straight on.

Wall mounting is not its forte. I strongly believe it was expected that most units would not be wall mounted.

My run is about 40-50ft, using 4 strands of CAT6 solid cable. In other words, all 4 green/brown is pos(+) while all 4 orange/blue is neg(-). I used multimeter and the drop in voltage is very minor, amounts to a few % loss. I understand this should be within tolerance.

Based on calculations, that would amount to over 8% drop at 40 feet if you are using 24AWG at what the power supply can provide (2A). This may cause issues, depending on variations in how much your panel draws. (That’s about twice as much drop as it can handle.)

At 50 feet, power supply max, you are looking at over 10.5 percent.

The IQ Panel must have a bare minimum of 11.6 Volts. Amounts to about 3.5% or so drop that can be tolerated.

Systems design should accommodate for higher voltage than this though. I would typically not even recommend trying a run pushing 50 feet. To be completely safe you would need 3 pair of 18AWG. The IQ panel cannot accommodate the same length wire runs of other systems unfortunately, especially not using the same cabling gauges.

I would actually consider this to possibly be playing into the sensor radio issues.

No I do not, didn’t know those even existed. When I asked my security dealer about RF signal repeater they said one doesn’t exist. Clearly they were mistaken..

Yep, here is the RE120.

I asked because a lot of sensor issues can result from having more than one of these at a location.

To be honest, swapping the 25+ sensors I have would be a giant pain in the ass, and to switch to 2Gig requires all new sensors and a new security dealer

You can reuse most sensors with a translator. Just no life safety ones like smoke detectors/CO detectors.

I am cautious about 2Gig GC3 for a couple of reasons.. first among them is that it’s a brand new product and who knows what issues it might have. On paper it looks fantastic but then so did the Qolsys. I want to see what software it’s built on and how stable/reliable it is, that’s something we may not know for months. Also, I understand there is no secondary panel yet (just a pin pad really)

GC3 does not run a mobile OS. You would indeed need to wait on a full-fledged secondary panel.

"A new version of the IQ2 is actually being developed due to this concern (and others) as I understand it."

Any other information do you have on this beyond what you put in the reply? Timing/cost? I had no idea another panel was being developed. I get that they clearly envisioned the IQ2 as being on a nightstand, but that is not how I use secondary panels… they have always been mounted, that’s what we are used to and what we like. If there had been a different option I would have done that instead. However, to use the same company I used last time my options were IQ panel or Simon XTi. My other options were 2Gig which GC2 is kind of “meh” for me, there were some drawbacks in my mind to using that. Or I could go with a pro-install system with sky high monitoring. So it felt like my choices were limited and I had two non-optimal choices…

"Based on calculations, that would amount to over 8% drop at 40 feet if you are using 24AWG at what the power supply can provide (2A). This may cause issues, depending on variations in how much your panel draws. (That’s about twice as much drop as it can handle.) At 50 feet, power supply max, you are looking at over 10.5 percent. The IQ Panel must have a bare minimum of 11.6 Volts. Amounts to about 3.5% or so drop that can be tolerated. Systems design should accommodate for higher voltage than this though. I would typically not even recommend trying a run pushing 50 feet. To be completely safe you would need 3 pair of 18AWG. The IQ panel cannot accommodate the same length wire runs of other systems unfortunately, especially not using the same cabling gauges. I would actually consider this to possibly be playing into the sensor radio issues."

My home is new construction and my only choices were to either have the builder’s in-home wiring company do the security system (at great cost and with a Simon XTi being the newest option), or using CAT6 run and then install my own panel. Alarm wiring or any other kind of wiring was not an option. Now, as it turns out I can actually go through the wall if I really had to since the fridge is on the other side and make it a really short run, but… I had problem when the panel was on the kitchen counter with a 4’ run of the included power wiring. The panel doesn’t act any different when I have it on the longer run down the structured wiring box. The CAT6 cable I have is 23AWG and I’m using 4 wires each for pos(+) and neg(-) so all 8 wires of the CAT6 are in use. Math aside, assuming that my multimeter is working properly what I have measured is around a 3-4% loss compared to the 4’ run of cable in the kitchen. I don’t know if there is a way for me to check on the panel what voltage it is receiving, all I seem to be able to do is run an AC check and it says AC power is present. It seems like this panel has an very tight tolerance for power which is interesting… the security dealer I went through said “no problem” when I asked about running power over CAT6, so long as I used multiple wires to do so. Since the IQ behaves more or less the same whether over short or long power run I don’t know how much this is affecting it, but I can put it back on the short run just in case. I’m not drilling through the wall again though unless I know I’m keeping this panel.

I dunno, the GC3 sounds interesting, but I’m gathering it may be months before the secondary panels are released. The problem is I have no good options in the here and now. GC2 is long in the tooth, as is the Simon XTi and my only other option is the Qolsys which is fraught with design issues. So it feels like I’m between a rock and a hard place here. If all I had to do is wait for the GC3 panel I would be far more tempted to make a go of it. It’s the wait for secondary panels that is the killer. If it’s only a month or two wait after GC3 release to get secondary panels I would feel better I suppose.

In a nutshell, from where the current main panel sits, I cannot hear the chiming if I’m upstairs or in the basement, and the siren isn’t loud enough to necessarily be heard in the opposite side of the house if you are on a different level. We have toddlers running around who are getting to the age of being able to open doors and without a solid way to hear the chime to doors, this is a real concern.

Any other information do you have on this beyond what you put in the reply? Timing/cost?

I wish I did, but not as of this time. A post here contained a video link.

I know it is supposed to have power application in the back of the panel, and wall mounting (not velcro)

I had problem when the panel was on the kitchen counter with a 4′ run of the included power wiring. The panel doesn’t act any different when I have it on the longer run down the structured wiring box.

Ah, well if the issue was present with a short run, that likely isn’t a factor.

In general I would recommend basing the cable run off of the power supply specs. The IQ Panel won’t be pulling max amps, but you do run the risk of underpowering it if you aren’t careful. Using all 8 conductors is definitely necessary in this case. We did see issues previously where using existing cable runs was catching people off guard and causing some problems.

However, a 3% drop puts you above what it needs. Qolsys may in fact have addressed through hardware or software adjustments the power application issues previously noted. That’s actually something I have been meaning to follow up on anyway. I’ll see if they have any additional insight.

I dunno, the GC3 sounds interesting, but I’m gathering it may be months before the secondary panels are released.

Months would be a safe bet. I could not say exactly when because I have only heard mention that there will definitely be one. I’ve not seen any other details yet.