PowerG sensors on Qolsys?

Qolsys has indicated that they plan to support the Tyco/DSC/Visonic PowerG sensors on their IQPanel 2, does anyone have an update or estimate for when PowerG may be supported?

PowerG support was initially mentioned as a future enhancement at the start of beta roll out in 2016, reiterated in June 2017 in their press release announcing availability of the panel for purchase and can be seen as a logo in various Youtube videos on the panel.

I am asking about PowerG support on Qolsys now because it appears Alarm.com, Qolsys and DSC with their new Iotega product are doing a dealer training program where PowerG is specifically called out, a couple of examples here and here
Thanks

While compatibility with Power G is being worked on, there is currently no ETA when this integration will be made available.

Thanks for responding Tyler. It was a naive hope of mine that someone might have heard a rumor since there had been no official announcement. I expect it would be frowned on by Qolsys for dealers to say anything even if they knew but I had to ask.

For those that aren’t familiar with the PowerG sensors its perhaps worth pointing out why I was asking. PowerG implements frequency hopping spread spectrum wireless communications in addition to encryption. Encryption is being much more widely supported nowadays but still only on fixed narrow band frequencies that are easy to jam. Detecting jamming doesn’t help much, its much better to mitigate or avoid it and have the alarm system be fully operational. Spread spectrum in addition to encryption produces a much more robust and secure wireless communications, highly resistant if not immune to jamming or even detection. Traditional fixed narrow band frequency and non-encrypted wireless used by the major suppliers has been demonstrated to be vulnerable to both jamming, and if not encrypted then to spoofing too.

I should point out that the current image sensor used by both 2Gig and Qolsys (and designed by Alarm.com for image verification) appears to use direct sequence (as opposed to frequency hopping) spread spectrum and possibly encryption but its the only sensor in those companies sensor ranges that does use both. This is why alarm systems using it need a special module to support the different frequency required.

Yep, we are definitely excited by the prospect of frequency hopping being available. Encryption by way of the Qolsys S-Line sensors is currently available on the IQ Panel 2, though they are 319.5.

Announcement info speaks to software updates enabling this, however I am not certain whether there may be additional hardware components needed as well. (I would assume so as the image sensor daughterboard does not come standard either)

Yes I had wondered about it being only a “software update” capability too. Maybe the 900 MHz (actually the ISM band is 902-928 MHz) radio used to support the Alarm.com image sensor can be programmed to support the PowerG sensors but I think its more likely it requires a different wireless module. One of the really nice hardware features in the Qolsys panel is the ability to support up to four daughter cards. Currently three cards support (i) 319.5 legacy/S-Lne encrypted, (ii) Z-Wave Plus and (iii) 900 MHz image sensor but there’s still a fourth slot available for PowerG assuming you already had the first three populated.

What I also like about the Qolsys approach in general is that they offer AT&T LTE with a fall back to HSDPA from the get go, whereas other alarm solutions seem to cap AT&T at HSDPA which while not too limiting today is likely to hit sunset earlier than LTE. They also include 802.11ac which is helpful in congested wifi areas.

Well this is encouraging. I decided to check the FCC database to see if DSC subsidiary Visonic (who originated the PowerG solution) had filed any test data because they would probably be the ones to develop a module for Qolsys. Lo and behold FCC ID: WP3-RFDQOL documents a module from them that looks just like other Qolsys wireless modules and the filed external pictures actually show a PCB with QOLsys silk screened on it. The application for approval was filed June 1, 2017, I don’t know how long it would take for FCC approvals.

The official FCC site is listed below with all the relevant documents for those interested. If the search link expires then just do a new search for manufacturer WP3 and product code RFDQOL. Alternatively there is a non-official site listing FCC applications with a much friendlier interface that I’ve also provided.

Informal site for FCC filings
FCC search site

Just an update on this for you guys. I’ve been told by people who know things: DSC plans to announce and start selling Qolsys IQ2 with PowerG after ISC West 2018.

Just an update on this for you guys. I’ve been told by people who know things: DSC plans to announce and start selling Qolsys IQ2 with PowerG after ISC West 2018.

I’ve heard a rumor, but we are awaiting official announcement. It will be exciting to have access to PowerG options on the Qolsys IQ Panel 2.

New product available next week:

https://qolsys.com/iq-panel-2-plus/

Leaves a couple of open questions. Is the IQ Panel 2+ compatible with existing image sensors like the QZ2103-840? Is there any way to upgrade an IQ Panel 2? And can you upgrade if you already have the CARD-IS? I’m wondering if we’ll basically have to choose between PowerG and image sensors, or if it’s possible to have both.

A similar thread is found here regarding the new panel options and possible upgrades of existing panels.

And can you upgrade if you already have the CARD-IS? I’m wondering if we’ll basically have to choose between PowerG and image sensors, or if it’s possible to have both.

That’s a good question, Qolsys support has not confirmed if cards will be available by themselves (their firmware bulletin states they will be though) but I’m not sure if it would replace the existing radio card or if it will take up a new slot, effectively forcing out the Card-IS. I’ve sent this question to Qolsys, will report back here when they give an answer.

But the other question is even if I buy an IQ Panel 2+, is there a way to make it work with existing image sensors? Or are there PowerG image sensors? Or are image sensors effectively being deprecated?

Alright, I am told this is definitive by Qolsys as of 8/22/2018:

The mention of daughtercards in existing panels in the firmware bulletin was referencing Beta customers and does not intend to mean that cards will be available. A separate article by a third party stated the same but Qolsys said it was incorrect.

They have chosen to offer Power G support only in the new IQ Panel 2+

The Power G card takes up the slot and antenna which would have been used for Image Sensors, so using Power G currently precludes image sensor usage. You cannot use Power G and Image Sensors at the same time

of course we cannot say whether changes in the future might happen, but as of now the above is what Qolsys has provided.

Well happy 1 year thread anniversary everyone! Just a quick observation. I suspect the reason why the IQ Panel 2Plus doesn’t support simultaneous image sensor and PowerG operation may have more to do with how the panel does image sensing today. Jason, you might want to check your information from Qolsys because there should be enough radio card slots available. The panel has four slots, with three card slots currently populated (i) 319.5 legacy/S-Line encrypted, (ii) Z-Wave Plus and (iii) 900 MHz ADC image sensor, leaving one spare for PowerG.

The reason why both may not be possible is that current image sensors from ADC operate in the same frequency band as PowerG and so despite both PowerG and the ADC sensors using spread spectrum technology there may be too much interference between them to operate optimally. PowerG does support image sensors shown here on the DSC site but ADC may not support them via the Qolsys panel at this time. Just my theory though.

I think it unlikely that image sensor/video verification will be deprecated by Qolsys. The trend in the alarm industry is for more rather than less verification of alarms due to the large number of false alarms. In fact in San Jose, where Qolsys is based, the San Jose PD will not respond to an alarm unless it is either audibly or visually verified as needing a response.

Most DIY alarm systems today with visual verification rely on the home owner to do verification using a solution like ADC. For several reasons I think this is very sub-optimal versus a central monitoring service performing this function although I hadn’t found a CMS willing to do this last time I looked. (i) The home owner may not have access to cell service to verify, either due to poor reception or because they are out of range or say on a flight. (ii) If they are in range what happens when the call comes in while driving for example, talk about distracted driving. (iii) Even if the home owner is ideally situated to take the call then they still have to call the PD to respond which is likely to be much slower than a CMS. Using 911 also ties the call to the cell phone location not the home so that may cause confusion and dispatch to the wrong location.

Still optimistically looking/hoping for video verification by CMS for DIY alarm systems.

Jason, you might want to check your information from Qolsys because there should be enough radio card slots available

The direct statement from Qolsys: “PowerG does preclude Image Sensor capability since they share the same antenna and slot on the board.” You cannot use both Image Sensors and Power G at this time because they must use the same board slot.

PowerG does support image sensors shown here on the DSC site but ADC may not support them via the Qolsys panel at this time. Just my theory though.

To clarify, that is not an Image Sensor. The Alarm.com Image Sensor is an Alarm.com product. That sensor is functionally similar but is a Power G sensor and does not currently function with ADC Image Sensor service. See this thread for more info.

I’m told by Qolsys that the PG9934P does take a single image which is available on the Qolsys Panel, but it is not yet compatible with ADC service and the Qolsys panel cannot upload it.

Still optimistically looking/hoping for video verification by CMS for DIY alarm systems.

Stay tuned, as we expect this on the horizon.

I saw this on the Qolsys Facebook page when someone asked if existing IQ2 panels will be upgradable to work with PowerG.

Great question! The PowerG cards we have are going to be installed in new IQ Panel 2 Plus panels, however, there may be options in the future to purchase a PowerG card and install it in an existing IQ Panel 2 to receive the additional features associated with PowerG. For now, we hope you've upgraded to the newest 2.2.1 software and are enjoying those features!

I get the feeling because their supply of the PowerG cards is somewhat limited at the moment they are only including it in new panels, but perhaps when the supply catches up with the demand they will make the PowerG daughter card available for purchase separately. Is there any details of the IQ2+ panel being different in any way than the original IQ2 other than the inclusion of the PowerG daughter card?

With the back and forth regarding the separate Power G daughter card leading up to the announcement of the Plus panel, that could be possible. Unfortunately, we would not have an ETA regarding any separate Power G card for the “Standard” IQ Panel 2.

Other than the inclusion of the daughter card for the Power G (and/or radio for 345MHz) the “Standard” and the Plus IQ Panel 2 would be identical. They use the same platform and firmware.

That’s great to hear Tyler! That means those of us with the non Plus version will continue to get firmware updates for the foreseeable future :slight_smile:

Been researching what’s the best door/window sensor for the IQ Panel 2+. When I upgrade, I want to move to all encrypted sensors over time.

Seems like it’s the new PowerG PG9303 vs the Qolsys S-Line QS1135-840.

The PG9303 just made it through FCC approval, don’t see it available anywhere yet, and the QS1135 has been out for a while.

The PQ9303 uses one CR2450 battery, the QS1135 uses two CR2032’s. Thinking the QS1135 will be cheaper at first.

The PG9303 with PowerG seems like better technology, but I wonder if it really makes that big of a difference in a regular consumer house hold. The PG9303 also has no restrictions listed in the Qolsys compatibility PDF, while the older PG9975 had that signal test restriction for now.

Also, it looks like firmware 2.3 is out, with some new stuff, including support for the new PowerG sensors.

The PG9303 with PowerG seems like better technology, but I wonder if it really makes that big of a difference in a regular consumer house hold.

It depends on your use case. For a normal home application either the S-Line or Power G would be good options. S-line will be a little less expensive and still offers encryption, yes.

If you need the extra range, go Power G.

Yeah, I need to decide. Just wasn’t sure if the signal hopping of PowerG was that important.I kinda like having the extended battery of the QS1135 but that PG9303 might be just as long, if not longer.