what is the best way to troubleshoot simultaneous loss of supervision of multiple zones, then the same zones coming back online also simultaneously several hours later?
thanks
Is this on a 2GIG Panel? Do you use a hardwire takeover module? This is common if the takeover module fails a supervision check with the panel for whatever reason. All relevant takeover module zones will report loss of supervision at one time.
This may or may not be indicative of an overall issue. (likely not if it only happened once) If it continues, it may suggest weak signaling between the panel and the takeover module. You might try to resolve using something like the RE524X repeater which will improve signaling.
Yes it’s a 2gig panel with two translators — a GE wired to GE wireless and GE wireless to 2gig.
Several, but not all zones, lost and regained supervision simultaneously—would a translator signal issue make sense if not all zones went offline?
This has happened two or three times.
Several, but not all zones, lost and regained supervision simultaneously—would a translator signal issue make sense if not all zones went offline?
Yes. The zone transmissions would be sent individually, so it may just indicate that the translator had a tough time reaching the panel at that time. Some supervision signals made it through and others did not. This could indicate interference or borderline signal strength.
How far is the translator from the panel?
It’s about 80 ft
Yeah that may just indicate it was having trouble reaching the panel. Make sure there is no metal nearby the wireless translator, wired translator, or panel. You can probably relocate the wireless translator closer to the panel, which would have the effect of repeating signals.
One particular zone has not been communicating consistently with the panel recently, in that opening and closing doors in the zone sometimes will register at the panel and other times will not register. Additionally, there is an entry delay on this zone. When I entered a door today with the system armed away, the zone apparently did not register my entry, as the alarm was triggered by an interior motion detector.
Does this mean this one particular zone is not getting translated consistently? If so, why would this start occurring after several years without issues? There have been no other changes or new obstructions. Why would only one zone be affected?
One particular zone has not been communicating consistently with the panel recently, in that opening and closing doors in the zone sometimes will register at the panel and other times will not register.
That’s not indicative of an issue between the translator and panel, that would more likely be a wiring or other physical concern with that zone.
Doors expand and contract with the frame with changes in temperature, and this can affect sensor alignment. Is this a surface wired contact? Or is it recessed?
There are several doors in this zone, at least two of which have failed to register either opening or closing at various times. Both of these doors have recessed contacts.
I thought because the same issue was affecting more than one door in the zone, it might be a translator issue?
Multiple doors wired in series function as a single zone. There is a strong possibility that either the sensors themselves cannot open or there may be a short on the circuit at or near the hardwire translator.
Are the recessed sensors magnetic or are they plunger sensors? A plunger sensor would be installed on the hinge side of the door.
Can you post an image of the wiring at the translator and let us know which zone is causing the trouble?
They are recessed magnetic sensors
The zone in question is zone 1, sensor type entry with entry delay. Sometimes when I open a door in the zone and the panel does not recognize the action, I open and close the same door once or twice and the state is then recognized.
Again today when I opened a door in the zone, the panel did not recognize the opening, so I had to disarm via app to avoid activating the motion detectors.
Also again today multiple zones went offline — some simultaneously, and others at different times. (When this occurs, how can these zones be brought back online?)
Unfortunately in the image I am not able to see the wiring for zone one. However, a general issue is apparent in the photo.
The wired to wireless translator should generally never be placed inside the metal can. The surrounding metal, batteries, and circuitry can eat the wireless RF signals being sent by the hardwire translator. I believe we have had a prior conversation where this was mentioned, but you said the door cover is never installed?
The wireless translator should be at least a little further away from the large metal can. It should not be so close to a large metal object. The combined effect of both translators being installed the way they are can possibly be a cause of intermittent supervision and signaling errors like you are seeing. At the very least since this issue appears to be similar to what you were reporting before I would recommend ruling this out.
Try moving the wireless translator further from the panel first. It may even help to just use a 12VDC plug in power supply for it and mount it on a wall facing the open metal can, rather than beside it.
Also again today multiple zones went offline — some simultaneously, and others at different times. (When this occurs, how can these zones be brought back online?)
Offline simply means that supervision signals are not reaching the panel. This can only be resolved by resolving the cause of the underlying signal degradation.
I believe we have had a prior conversation where this was mentioned, but you said the door cover is never installed?
Correct
Try moving the wireless translator further from the panel first. It may even help to just use a 12VDC plug in power supply for it and mount it on a wall facing the open metal can, rather than beside it.
I assume you are referring here to the wireless to wireless translator mounted on the wall outside the box?
If I were to move the wired to wireless translator outside the box, or change to a single translator setup with a TAKE-345, I assume that would require splicing in additional wire length from the original wired sensors, which could be significant particularly if I were to mount the translator on a wall opposite the metal can?
I assume you are referring here to the wireless to wireless translator mounted on the wall outside the box?
Yes, the first step I would try is moving the wireless-wireless translator away from the box.
If I were to move the wired to wireless translator outside the box, or change to a single translator setup with a TAKE-345, I assume that would require splicing in additional wire length from the original wired sensors,
Yes, judging from the image, you would likely need to splice additional wire if you were to relocate the wired to wireless translator.
Is splicing in additional wire length what is normally required when converting a wired system to wireless to enable the translator to be placed away from the box? Or is my wired setup in some way atypical, which led whoever created the current setup to do it what way they did?
Wires are usually cut to the appropriate length to wire into the old panel terminals and not much longer. That means sometimes you can re-route them out of the can, but often extra wire must be spliced on by the installer to extend the zones out of the metal can so the wired-to-wireless translator is not inside.
The installer of the hardwired takeover module should have done that in this case. (A little surprising if it was a professional installer, but these things happen)
Ok I will try what you suggested.
Is your guess that the problem here is more likely an issue between the two translators, rather than between the second translator and the panel?
Do you still think the zone 1 issue is related to the local sensors on the doors, unrelated to the apparent translator issue?
I think all of the issues you describe are likely related. You described Zone 1 as the entry/exit door zone, it likely gets used very frequently, and the impact of it opening and not registering right away is almost always immediately apparent, which means any intermittent issue present on zones would be most obvious on that zone.
Most likely with numerous supervision errors and missed open signals you are looking at intermittent poor signaling from the translators, either between the two translators or more likely from the wireless to wireless to the panel. 80ft with a big metal can right nearby and through other house materials might be chewing up the RF signal. Adjusting the wireless to wireless translator location is a test for both issues though, and is the easiest option to try as well.
There may still be an issue with Zone 1 physically, but I would troubleshoot signaling first since it also explains the behavior and is really the only cause for routine supervision loss.
Would switching out the metal can for a plastic one be a reasonable thing to do?