intermittent malfunctions of Shock Sensor Window Contacts SC2G-THNSHK

I have 5 windows monitored by 2GIG Combined Shock Sensor Window Contacts (SC2G-THNSHK). Lately, I’ve gotten random, intermittent failures of these sensors. When it happens I get the following alert on my phone: “XXX system: The Basement window Three reported a malfunction at X:XX pm on (DATE)” and “XXX system: The Basement window Three Glass Break reported a malfunction at X:XX pm on (DATE)”

Usually this failure clears itself within 15min - 3 hours). In one case I removed the cover and replaced it and it cleared the problem. I’ve really done nothing significant to fix it but it usually goes away. The intermittent nature of the failure is annoying me. It’s usually while asleep which causes beeping form the panel.

In the whole system these are the only ones to cause any trouble. So far it’s happened to 4 of the 5 sensors, with 2 being the most prevalent. About 6 times in 6 months, usually a couple times in a row per sensor. I also have the same thin window sensors (no glass break) and have had no problems with those.

They are all in the basement, which never gets below about 50 degrees. The windows are new, and well insulated. Even so, this problem is manifesting itself now in about 45 degree outdoor weather. From what I can tell, temperature should not be a problem. Also the basement has a dehumidifier, and never gets above 45% relative humidity.

Any help would be appreciated. I’m trying to figure out why the glass break window sensors are intermittently registering a malfunction.

"XXX system: The Basement window Three reported a malfunction at X:XX pm on (DATE)" and "XXX system: The Basement window Three Glass Break reported a malfunction at X:XX pm on (DATE)"

Is the malfunction reported a “loss of supervision”?

Did you do a walk test to check signal strength?

They are all in the basement...

Is panel installed per manufacturer recommendation? Above basement level, center of home?

Installing the DW10 (THNSHK is a DW10) at earth level or below may impair their range.

If after you do a walk test, and if the THNSHK report a weak signal, your options may be to use a 345mhz repeater.

loss of supervision - yes

Walk test - Yes, I’ve done them many times. In all cases both the window open and shock sensor show 5 of 5 bars green (full reception).

panel install - not exactly per recommendation but close. It’s similar to the top right of your diagrams (single floor ranch home). Center of West (in diagram) wall, on first floor level (adjacent to garage). Because I also have a sunroom further west from your diagram, it is somewhat central to all the sensors. Even in this position I’ve only ever seen full reception on all sensors on a system test.

DW10 - Is at ground level as windows exit basement at ground level. Yes they are in basement but always show full reception. They are being transmitted by the thin window sensor (2GIG Thin Door/Window Contact (2GIG-DW10-345), of which I have many at the same distance from the panel which never give me trouble.

I also have a TS1 remote panel. With that I have this - (2GIG 900 MHz Transceiver (2GIG-XCVR2-345) I’m not sure if that helps or repeats the signals through the TS1.

In summary, given your concerns, I can’t agree that placement of either the main panel or window/shock sensors is the problem. At all times I have 5 of 5 bars, I’ve never seen anything less. I also have perfect reception (no failures) of my #1 window (the farthest one from the panel, it’s never lost supervision). It just seems that three of those basement window sensors have had intermittent failures.

Would loss of supervision be reported for batteries? Why would it fail only for an hour or so with no corrective action taken be me, then be restored? Is the addition of the shock sensor compromising the window sensor?

have 5 windows monitored by 2GIG Combined Shock Sensor Window Contacts (SC2G-THNSHK). Lately, I've gotten random, intermittent failures of these sensors.

How many THNSHK’s do you have installed in basement? 5, right?

So, 4 THNSHK DW10’s in basement show intermitent “Malfunction- loss of supervision” Errors?

In the whole system these are the only ones to cause any trouble. So far it's happened to 4 of the 5 sensors...

Loss of supervision malfunctions are caused by a poor signal issue usually, or a communication issue to panel. The fact that you have 5 THNSHK’s all in the basement, and 4 ar reporting malfunction loss of supervision would seem to indicate an external problem with signal quality (it is highly unlikely that all 4 DW10’s are “bad”).

The fact that 1 out of 5 hasn’t yet reported a malfunction, doesn’t mean anything either.

Sometimes battery replacement does help, it can’t hurt in any event.

Are the windows metal?

From what I understand, high humidity can also degrade the rf signals.

This is the problem and reason it is ocuring-
Your DW10’s in basement on THNSHK are losing their 345mhz signal to panel intermittently it appears for some reason. May be caused by metal window frame or some other signal interference, or panel may be more than 100’ away.

Try reseating the XCVR2 transciever, or

Relocate panel, or try a 345mhz signal repeater to boost signal and see if problem resolves or

Do nothing, and live with the intermittent signal degradation/drops and subsequent malfunctions for loss of supervision. Or disable supervision on the 3 sensors.

Your TS1 runs on the 900mhz frequency, and is not a repeater.

Periodically each 2GIG-DW10-345 transmits a message saying it’s OK. The control panel expects to receive these messages. If the control panel doesn’t receive one of these expected messages from a supervised sensor within a certain time frame then it alerts you of a malfunction - loss of supervision.

It looks like when these loss of supervision malfunctions occur it’s always both loops on the sensor, first the shock sensor (loop 1) and then 2 seconds later the reed switch (loop 2). It might be worth a try disabling supervision on one of the two loops to see if that helps. I think the 2GIG-DW10-345 only transmits a single OK message and the 2GIG panel applies that message to both RF sensor definitions (loop 1 and loop 2). So supervising both of them really isn’t any better than supervising just one of them.

You could always, of course, disable supervision on both loops and that would make the nuisance problem go away but then 2GIG wouldn’t automatically detect if one of your sensors stopped working.

reply to rive:

Correct - 5 total, all in basement, yes so far 4 have given me errors.
I see what your saying about external signal quality problem.

Windows - new vinyl, not metal

Humidity, never above 45% (with a dehumidifier), in the winter very low almost 30% at times.

Possibility - Some sensors are just about 100 ft away, surprisingly, those are usually fine. In the last week or so this affected 2 others, about 30 & 45 feet away each. Not too bad.

What do you mean by “try reseating the XCVR2 transceiver”? That’s the 900 mhz card, I thought you said this should not be a factor? Do you mean to remove it from the pins on the main circuit board and replace? If so why do you think it would help?

Relocating the main panel is a possibility, although less appealing aesthetically in the home. The annoyance level is not there yet, but I will consider it if it persists and I can’t find another solution.

Regarding the repeater, is this the type of product you are suggesting? Resolution Products Long Range Sensor Repeater (RE220T) https://suretyhome.com/product/resolution-products-long-range-sensor-repeater/
–Used in very large homes where the sensor and control panel are too far apart.
–Also doubles up as a signal booster. If you have a lot of wireless sensors (somewhere close to 48) and are experiencing a lot of sensor supervision errors, the RE220T can help resolve that issue by boosting the signals of your sensors.

That repeater sounds like a good idea.

reply to Ryan:

Are you looking at my history? From what I can see on alarm.com (see below) the errors are happening simultaneously.

Disabling supervision would stop the main panel from looking for the “OK” messages, correct? If I remove the window open one and keep the shock sensor, I should still know they both work because it’s kind of all or nothing right? Just because I drop supervision on the window open, does not mean I drop protection from it correct?

Solution:
I think where I’m at now is I’ll try these things in this order.

1 - wait and see how annoying this is, maybe just deal with it because I’m lazy.
2 - disable supervision from the window open part and keep the shock sensor supervision (this should not affect alarm functions right?)
3 - Install a repeater – this one Resolution Products Long Range Sensor Repeater (RE220T)
4 - Move the Main panel to less desirable location
5 - pull hair out!! (just kidding)

Thank you both for all your help. I’m still figuring out the nuances of the system.

I have no other malfunctions prior to these for almost 2 months. Since installation about 6 months ago I’ve probably seen this another 3 times.

Here’s my history from now through 1/13/2015
Basement Window Three End of Malfunction 5:28 am, Mar-15-2015
Basement Window Three Glass Break End of Malfunction 5:28 am, Mar-15-2015
Basement Window Three Malfunction 9:40 pm, Mar-14-2015
Basement Window Three Glass Break Malfunction 9:40 pm, Mar-14-2015
Basement Window Three End of Malfunction 10:01 pm, Mar-13-2015
Basement Window Three Glass Break End of Malfunction 10:01 pm, Mar-13-2015
Basement Window Three Malfunction 8:01 pm, Mar-13-2015
Basement Window Three Glass Break Malfunction 8:01 pm, Mar-13-2015
Basement Window Three End of Malfunction 7:56 am, Mar-8-2015
Basement Window Three Glass Break End of Malfunction 7:55 am, Mar-8-2015
Basement Window Three Malfunction 4:46 am, Mar-8-2015
Basement Window Three Glass Break Malfunction 4:46 am, Mar-8-2015
Basement Window Four End of Malfunction 7:01 am, Mar-2-2015
Basement Window Four Glass Break End of Malfunction 7:01 am, Mar-2-2015
Basement Window Four Malfunction 5:58 am, Mar-2-2015
Basement Window Four Glass Break Malfunction 5:58 am, Mar-2-2015

What do you mean by "try reseating the XCVR2 transceiver"? That's the 900 mhz card..

In any event, it is the device that allows your panel to communicate with anything you install. Power panel off, remove it, and put it back in (e.g., " re-seat it"), and reboot panel. This may or may not help.

Any updates to this?

I think I’m seeing the same thing - walk test OK with full signal on the sensor in question but intermittent loss of supervision.

What steps did you end up taking to resolve it? Or is it resolved?

Are you seeing this occurring only on one sensor, same sensor every time?

If so, that may indicate more of an issue locally at the sensor. What model of sensor is it and is it installed on or near excess metal?

Update:

Well, I started with step one from above: wait and see how annoying this is, maybe just deal with it because I’m lazy.

It’s happened twice in April and once a few days ago. Always the same sensor (#3) and clears itself in a few hours. I should probably try resetting and reseating the XCVR Transceiver, then progress through the steps I had before.

(reply to Jason)
In my case same sensor, it does seem to be isolated to that sensor. It’s a 2GIG Combined Shock Sensor Window Contacts (SC2G-THNSHK) (the thin window sensor with attached shock sensor). No metal nearby (vinyl window).

In most cases where loss of supervision is an issue but you have tested the sensor and it otherwise functions well, I would suggest implementing a repeater. (Only one.) This will in general boost the signalling capability of your RF sensors.

If it is a single combo sensor, then replace it is my suggestion, especially considering signal strength is 5/5 green bars. (I doubt a repeater will help you if you already have full signal)

You actually have two sensors… the DW10, and the shock that is using the separate loop via the DW10 leads. Which one is bad/reporting malfunction, Which zone/loop?

Each loop has its own zone:

Loop1 is the shock
Loop2 is the DW10

http://www.2gigforum.com/threads/122-Installing-programming-combo-2GIG-door-window-shock-sensor-(SC2G-THNSHK)

It’s the same transmitter. If only one loop is somehow reporting loss of supervision that definitely narrows down the issue. But in this case I see both report loss of supervision simultaneously as expected.

You could replace the sensor to see if that fixes the issue, you could add a repeater to see if that fixes the issue, or you could swap the location of the malfunctioning DW10 (A) with another DW10 you know works (B). Make sure to edit programming accordingly, then see if the problems continue on (A) or if (B) now shows loss of supervision intermittently.

And in checking, I noticed the last couple loss of supervision errors were actually from two different transmitters (one event on a shock/DW10 sensor combo, and another event on a different shock/DW10 sensor combo). I would err toward assuming you have some signalling issues resulting from the environment, in which case a repeater would help.

If multiple DW10’s are having malfunction loss of supervision errors. Chances are good its a signal degradation issue. If it were just one sensor, I’d say, bad sensor, if more than one, I’d say signal issue (especially if below earth level).

Go with a repeater

It’s been a year. This loss of supervision has been very intermittent, but I’m here ordering a new sensor anyway, so: I’m going to pick up the repeater in hopes of removing ALL intermittent sensor loss. It seems there are now two products, which is better, or what are the advantages/disadvantages of these?

Resolution Products Long Range Sensor Repeater (RE220T)
or
Resolution Products Universal Repeater, Translator (RE524X)

The RE524X is the replacement for all prior models of translator and repeater.

Previous versions are no longer available for purchase at this time.

UPDATE:
I did Step 1 (wait and see how annoying this is, maybe just deal with it because I’m lazy) for about a year, which was unsuccessful (surprise).

In early June I installed the Resolution Products Universal Repeater, Translator (RE524X). PROBLEM SOLVED.

I’ve had no intermittent failures for about 2 months. I placed the repeater in the basement under and around nearly all my homes sensors. Also closest to the two most problematic ones.

Am I correct in assuming that the repeater both repeats and massively increases the strength of all signals (powered by dc converter vs. battery)?

Thanks Jason and riven for you help. Michael, this repeater seems to be the fix you’ll need, it certainly has worked for me.

Am I correct in assuming that the repeater both repeats and massively increases the strength of all signals (powered by dc converter vs. battery)?

The RE524x manual does not specify the transmission power, but the device picks up any non-life safety wireless sensor signal (of the appropriate frequency) and repeats that signal at full power. Think of it as being able to install every sensor in your house in the location of the repeater. They do make a huge difference if you have some sensor signal issues.